Episode 117 - Roger Hanney

Episode details · 177 speaker turns · sound cues from context

00:00:16Scott Trickett: Another week has gone by. Too long for some, not long enough for others. But we're back for episode 117 of the parkrun Adventurers. And joining me all the way from Kawana parkrun is Melissa Erbacher. Have you noticed, Melissa, I'm calling you Melissa a lot more now? Welcome, by the way.

00:00:36Melissa Erbacher: Thank you. I've picked it up that you've mentioned it one or two times. Why do you do that, Scotty?

00:00:42Scott Trickett: Well, I think because I mentioned a few weeks ago that I want to be a bit more formal. I want to be coming off as a bit more professional. And I think if I just start by using the full version of your name, that's a good starting point. How many people do you think I can fool?

00:00:58Melissa Erbacher: Just by doing that, probably zero. You're going to have to put in some effort elsewhere in the podcast, I think, to pull it off altogether. Perhaps that may contribute. I'm not entirely sure. It's a thing, but possibly. But, yeah, I don't think it's going to be the one thing that makes you look like you're a professional.

00:01:21Scott Trickett: Well, here's another thing. Let's pick up on a discussion point from last week's episode. My – long-held desire to ban pants across the world. Yes. And it didn't get a lot of traction.

00:01:34Melissa Erbacher: No, you don't have a lot of support?

00:01:36Scott Trickett: I don't have a lot of support on the no pants rule.

00:01:39Melissa Erbacher: It might be because of the time of year you're trying to ban pants or you're bringing it to everyone's attention. I know it's a year-round thing for you trying to ban them. However, it might not be a timely moment to pick the hard ones.

00:01:51Scott Trickett: This is when you go hardest. This is when you go hardest on your issues. Don't pick the easy, the slim pickings, the low-hanging fruit. Say, let's all wear shorts in summer. Make a good case in the middle of winter when it's cold, when it's hard to... Not only get out for running.

00:02:10Melissa Erbacher: I like that you like a challenge, Scotty.

00:02:12Scott Trickett: I'm all about the challenge, Mel. You should know that after 116 episodes of the parkrun Adventurous podcast.

00:02:18Melissa Erbacher: Well, we haven't had 116 episodes. We've had 115.

00:02:21Scott Trickett: This is. I figure we're two minutes in, so this counts as another one.

00:02:27Melissa Erbacher: Okay, fair enough.

00:02:28Scott Trickett: Yeah. It's a bit like the penultimate conversation we had a few months ago.

00:02:33Melissa Erbacher: Yes, well, I will validate your math and I will agree with you, okay.

00:02:38Scott Trickett: Another discussion point coming out of last week's episode is that people didn't like the short span, but they loved a little bit of Hannah working blue.

00:02:48Melissa Erbacher: Working blue? What does that mean?

00:02:51Scott Trickett: Well, we got an E rating. We went explicit for only the second time. Yes. And we've got to discuss the direction of the podcast. Are we going to go this explicit route over 18s or are we going to keep it clean as we have done for 113 episodes?

00:03:14Melissa Erbacher: I reckon we just keep everyone guessing, Scotty. I don't think we should commit to a certain line. That's my opinion. I'm guessing by your hesitation that you don't necessarily agree.

00:03:27Scott Trickett: Well, I've only bleeped out about three or four episodes previously, so neither one of us want to go down that path. But you're right, let's just keep our options open.

00:03:40Melissa Erbacher: Are we going to live in the past? Are we going to stay with episode 116 or are we going to move into episode 117?

00:03:46Scott Trickett: No, no, this is episode 117.

00:03:48Melissa Erbacher: Okay, good.

00:03:50Scott Trickett: Definitely.

00:03:51Melissa Erbacher: You don't have anything else from last week you'd like to talk about before we can move forward?

00:03:57Scott Trickett: I feel like you're prompting me now. Have I missed something?

00:04:04Melissa Erbacher: I don't know. Are you feeling a little bit out of whack, off kilter, maybe out of balance?

00:04:11Scott Trickett: Oh, so following on from last week, we just got feedback galore. Yeah. I got a little bit of positive feedback on our chat around parkrun balance last week, which was nice to hear. It's nice to know that parkrun plays an important part in a lot of people's lives and they get a lot out of it. But they also know that it's okay to have a week off. And it was definitely okay for both of us to have a week off. But to hear us say it, I think was a little bit empowering for some people to know that it's okay. It's okay. parkrun's going to be there next week. And it was. It was for me on Saturday. I went back. I know you went back because I was stalking your Strava feed. Yeah.

00:05:01Melissa Erbacher: You were, actually, because I didn't post that until something like 5 o'clock or 5.30 on Saturday afternoon. And within seconds, you had liked and commented or kudos to me. Kudos to me? What's the past tense of kudos? I reckon you kudoed.

00:05:17Scott Trickett: I reckon you kudoed.

00:05:19Melissa Erbacher: You kudos me. There's no that's in there. All right. Well, you had kudos me within seconds of me posting it. Yeah. And yeah, so you must have just been, you're just sitting around waiting on Saturday?

00:05:32Scott Trickett: Saturday afternoon. Well, I had run on Saturday afternoon, so I guess I was on Strava checking out everybody else's run. Okay. And yours just popped up a couple of hours late, but yeah.

00:05:44Melissa Erbacher: You know why it popped up so late? Because I forgot that I had clicked finish in the morning and it wasn't until I actually went for another walk with a friend on Saturday afternoon and I went to record it in Strava and it was like, oh, wait a minute, I didn't finish this one from this morning, so I better do that.

00:06:00Scott Trickett: How's that watch working out for you?

00:06:04Melissa Erbacher: What watch?

00:06:05Scott Trickett: Exactly.

00:06:07Melissa Erbacher: The watch I wear is a bearing ceramic timepiece, which all it does, it has a single function apart from looking beautiful, and that is to tell me the time.

00:06:18Scott Trickett: No, that's not the watch I'm talking about, the one that I worked hard to get you. And worked hard to sync up and make sure it was all working.

00:06:26Melissa Erbacher: You did not finish that job, okay? I'm going to be seeing you this weekend. I will bring my laptop this time with all the different functionality of Strava and stuff. Well, it's not again. You never finished. If you really want me to use the watch, then you need to sync it to my Strava account properly. And I think you have to do that on my computer, don't you? That was the excuse last time. Something like that.

00:06:52Scott Trickett: Okay, we'll get there. We'll get there. So how was Kawana? Was it good to be back, Mel?

00:06:56Melissa Erbacher: It was. I had a lovely morning. I almost missed the start, actually, because we still, you know, you'd think a year after having a baby, you would get used to the fact that you have to add like 45 minutes to getting ready time in the morning, but we still haven't. So we almost missed everything. Missed the pre-run brief. We arrived and were unpacking the car just as all the runners were moving off to the start line. So we made it in time for go. But yeah, I offered to take the pram this week so Adam could have a run. He's sort of getting back a little bit into form and enjoying some faster runs for him than he's had for most of the year, which is good. And I got some resistance training in. And picked up the tail walker and a couple of marshals on the way back. Had a lovely chat with the volunteers. So all in all, a very lovely morning.

00:07:51Scott Trickett: How about you?

00:07:52Melissa Erbacher: You were back at home?

00:07:53Scott Trickett: I was at home. Yeah, well, I was back at Westerfolds. They had their 250th event. And I looked at my results afterwards. And it was my 80th run at Westerfolds. So, of course, again, I brought it all back to me. And, like, I've missed a lot. So there's been 250. I've only been to 80. My math is pretty good. There's been 170 events at Westerfold that I haven't attended. So that put things in perspective, but I also had a wonderful morning.

00:08:23Melissa Erbacher: You've been to less than a quarter.

00:08:25Scott Trickett: I know. It's not great, is it?

00:08:26Melissa Erbacher: Where the hell have you been, Scotty? No, 80. Okay. That was too quick to agree.

00:08:31Scott Trickett: Less than a third. Let's go there.

00:08:36Melissa Erbacher: Less than a third. Yep.

00:08:40Scott Trickett: Yeah, well, you know I like to travel around. You know, we call this parkrun podcast the parkrun Adventurers because we like an adventure, whether that is at home or whether it's in a way. And, yeah, I like to get away a bit.

00:08:52Melissa Erbacher: It's funny that you actually paid attention to that, though, because I often just don't even look at my results emails at all, but I did happen to look at mine on the weekend as well. And it was actually my 104th parkrun altogether. Wow. But I have to confess, Kawana has got an extra year on the Westerfoldians and we're up to event number 295. So we're heading toward number 300 in a few weeks. And it's only my 67th parkrun at Kiwana that I did on the weekend.

00:09:22Scott Trickett: So you've missed even more than me.

00:09:24Melissa Erbacher: Well, I've run fewer. However, I've volunteered a lot there. So I'm thinking... Yeah, I mean, maybe that's what we should be looking at too is how many times you volunteered at Westerfolds because that could bring up the number of times. Therefore, you weren't away as much as you thought you were.

00:09:44Scott Trickett: There you go. I didn't think of that because you're right. I have volunteered a bit. But on Saturday, you know what I did? I ran with Kasia, my beautiful daughter. And I've said this before as well, Mel. If you get an opportunity with your kids out there, do parkrun with them because they cannot stop talking on Saturday morning, it seems. Kasia, we got to talk politics. And running for 30, 40 odd minutes. And the park was, it was cold, but the park's looking fantastic at the moment. And it was a great way to spend the morning. But yeah, Kasia's got this interest in politics and wanting to know how it all works and who does what. and explain why some people do things and why other people do other things and i really like the idea that i can shape my daughter's mind with my political views does this mean that you're going to have to start getting a bit educated and like studying before parkrun No, this may surprise you, Mel, because we haven't had a lot of political discussions both on the pod and off the pod, but it is an area of interest of mine. It was a subject I studied at school and have continued to follow with interest. Pay attention to? Yeah, yeah. One of my life heroes is... He's a political journalist who I've also noticed has started parkrunning. So I'm hoping he's going to be a future guest on the podcast if I ever have the nerve to ask him in person. But yeah, full of surprises, aren't I? You thought I was just about parkrun and American football. But no. Well, there you go. Because he didn't want to talk about the Jets. So we talked about politics instead. Politics and running.

00:11:28Melissa Erbacher: I can't think why. So five-kilometre events aside, has Kasia been backing up and doing the 2K Junior parkrun every week since it launched at Westerfolds?

00:11:41Scott Trickett: Well, we had to cancel on Sunday, which was fantastic timing because the weather was just horrendous.

00:11:50Melissa Erbacher: Okay. Yeah. And everybody got a bit of a line on Sunday morning then? Yeah, we did.

00:11:55Scott Trickett: We had a completely day off on Sunday, all of us. And it was one of those weekends where we did absolutely nothing. Haven't done one of those for a while. Everybody needs those from time to time. Yeah, I think they're good every now and then. Just sit at home and do nothing, literally. It was good. Wouldn't want to do it every weekend, but once a year is pretty good. Cool. So you're feeling all rested and rejuvenated now? for our assault on the Gold Coast this weekend.

00:12:22Melissa Erbacher: Assault? Is that the word you want to use?

00:12:25Scott Trickett: It's a fun assault.

00:12:25Melissa Erbacher: It's very aggressive. It's a fun assault. It's a somersault.

00:12:37Scott Trickett: Our guest joining us on the podcast this week would be familiar to a few of those, a few of you who are in the running scene. He's the man or one of the men behind the Hoka movement in Australia. Welcome to the podcast, Roger Hanney.

00:12:51Roger Hanney: Thanks, Scott. How are you?

00:12:53Scott Trickett: I'm really good. I'm really good. Now, Roger, you're a local of Sydney. I'll put it out there. I think you're pretty well known around the Sydney running scene. But what you're probably most well known for is your association with Hocker. And I've got this fascination with your brand. I'm fascinated by their popularity, particularly within the parkrun world. And I'm sort of fascinated by the story. So do you want to start there? Do you want to tell us how you're involved in Hocker and maybe tell us a bit about the Hocker story?

00:13:25Roger Hanney: Yeah, for sure. Thanks. And hi, Mel, as well. The... For those who, I mean, we like to think that everyone has heard of Hoka by now, but we know quite objectively, it's a fact that most people actually haven't. We know that hardcore runners are generally aware of Hoka One One or Hoka One One, if I use the correct Polynesian pronunciation, which I usually don't. And we know that increasingly, let's say recreational runners, general runners are becoming aware of Hoka, but you know, there's, there's, you know, I'd be surprised if out of the 25 million people in Australia, there's more than a million who are aware of us yet. Um, and we are working every single day to change that because we're immersed in the brand. Um, it's always surprising to, to realize that we're not, we're not as big as Nike out there just yet, but we are working on it. So Hoka, is a brand that came out of nowhere in a way in 2009 2010 um but you know despite this sort of funny looking distinctly silhouetted big plush rocket running shoe supposedly coming out of nowhere there's actually literally centuries of experience behind the product because you have guys who were fantastic innovators and designers and athletes working with a very prominent French outdoor sports and trail running brand, created Hoka because of their work actually with oversized skis. And one of the designers had actually designed, I'll say the name, Salomon's most popular oversized parabolic ski, because you'd remember skis used to be shaped like fence palings, which is straight up and down. But these guys got exploring the benefits of having a more curved shape and an oversized profile. And they found not only were there comfort and fun benefits, there were performance benefits as well. So they started thinking, why has nobody done an oversized profile in running shoes when oversize has been done in everything from tennis rackets and golf clubs to mountain bike tires. And what they found when they created this little brand of their own called was that the benefits for runners were all tipped towards the performance end of the spectrum. And they were essentially performance benefits for people running ridiculous distances over really complex and sometimes quite nasty terrain like you find in the French and Italian Alps. And that over time has shifted from being a trail running oriented brand that sold just over 30,000 pairs in their first 12 months of existence globally to being the number one brand at Hawaiian Ironman last year, which is obviously sort of a pinnacle event in extreme endurance and road running and close to 3 million pairs. So, you know, if you basically made $36,000 from something that you had on you in 2009 and you were turning $3 million with it in 2017, 2018, you'd probably feel like you had something that was working quite well for you there. And that's largely come from not marketing dollars. It's come from two things, big investment by an American company called Deckers and Deckers build shoe brands. So they own Teva, which are those American college sandals, Sanuk, which are those sort of laceless, very comfy sort of big footed, leisure wear and the biggest brand in the house is UGG Australia and UGG Australia is turning close to two billion dollars a year, which means that there is cash to spin off into this very distinctive running brand that has grown from being two models in 2011 to over 27 models across everything from Olympic level track spikes to hiking boots at the end of last year.

00:17:41Melissa Erbacher: Roger, you mentioned oversized skis, and anyone looking at Hokas just sees these giant, chunky, mattress-looking shoes. And they started out in trail running, so I'm a little bit – personally, I come from a little bit of a barefoot, minimalist shoe running background, so I just can't see looking at the profile of the sole how that can provide anyone with any kind of

00:18:11Roger Hanney: movement through the foot to help stabilize can you explain how their shoe actually is supposed to work on the trails yeah well as we all know don't judge a book by its cover because the um part of the beauty of hocker is that they really confound expectations so ever since that first pair came to market uh i think it was around 2000 i think it was only 2010 in the u.s at a boulder running company they have defied expectations so firstly you know you're a more minimalist inclined runner and the three key ingredients of minimalist running have always been low drop, neutral and lightweight footwear and that was very much on vogue at the time that Hocker came to be. But the funny thing is that Hocker achieved low drop lightweight uh neutral footwear but with more than an inch of cushion under the key impact areas of the foot and what brought that really to attention especially in the us and the us frankly i mean we know that the us is where everybody else in the world looks to see what's coming next um was that you had Karl Meltzer run about 3,400 k's in just over six weeks on the very first US mail delivery trail for ponies. in uh i think it was about six pairs of that very first shoe and with no significant lower leg issues and you know this is a guy obviously doing about 80 kilometers a day and that that blew people's minds and the nice thing was because of his partnership with red bull um we were you know the attention got out pretty quickly um he switched from asics actually at the time so he'd been an asic sponsored athlete and then because he felt that Hoka was the one shoe that he could really get that project done in. He, you know, made the choice to switch and, you know, he's off doing Western States this weekend, which is the very first 100 miler in the English speaking world. And I think it's his 81st hundred and he's won 40 of those so far. I mean, the guy's a machine. So he's great stock to have on board. And I mean he probably weighs about as much as a pair of your lightweight shoes What I would say as far as you look at the shoes and you think that's never going to work for me I'd say firstly stop looking at them put a pair on and see how they feel for yourself because it really is How they feel and how they work and especially how they work in motion that is more than you know, and I can talk about Hoka all day, no problem at all, but more than five hours of intellectualising just how tricky and clever and cool it is what we can do with your feet, a 15-second run in Hoka is usually what changes people's minds and converts them. So what we've done is we've stripped all those hard structures that you probably came to minimalism because of because typically people have felt as though shoes are really complex things under their feet, they've got varying degrees of hardness and softness right throughout midsole. You know, you can have a traditional shoe from a few years ago and it'll have five or six different durometers, and a durometer means degree of softness or firmness, under their foot. So Hoka, the guys who designed Hoka, stripped all of those hard structures and weird structures and mixed density structures out of the shoes and said, let's just design something that will be very, very fit for purpose, especially where your purpose is running. So rather than having hard shanks and those sort of structures that weigh the shoe down, they started from a point of having nothing under the foot and then said, well, let's just design one beautifully shaped midsole that works when you run. The whole idea is you're not actually as high as the shoe looks. You're inside the shoe. You're inside the midsole. It wraps around your foot in the way that most shoes don't. And the simplest way to understand that without actually cutting a shoe apart is to think that most shoes are essentially like sitting on a surf ski, you know. So they're narrower than your foot and they're flat and you're on top of them. Whereas in a Hoka, it's basically like being in a kayak. So you are deep inside an oversized base and that means it's inherently stable. It's very hard to tip. You know, if you've ever been in a kayak, you know that they're a lot more fun than a surf ski because you don't have to put that much effort into balancing all day. The reason that Hoka works that way is because it comes from a performance aspiration. So we want to take the effort out of a lot of things that can slow you down or fatigue you prematurely. So the shoe extends beyond your foot, either side, laterally and medially. So whether you are hitting with the edge of your foot, the outer edge of your foot, or if you're strongly over pronating, which can produce a harsh whipping action when your foot leaves the ground, we are reducing impact as you hit. we're letting you roll straight into a nice neutral spot under your midfoot which is where your foot perform like performs best and the way that we extend medially also means that as your foot takes off if you haven't gone just straight through the neutral rocker in the front of the shoe which also helps a smooth take off then we're essentially taking the sting out of that whipping action of over pronation because we're controlling that rate of acceleration by having a nice, soft, neutral foam base there.

00:23:54Melissa Erbacher: It doesn't look like, like if you look at the shoes, you don't realise that people's feet are inside the sole. So you've probably just broken the heart of a lot of short runners who were hoping to get a little elevation there.

00:24:06Roger Hanney: Don't worry, don't worry. I think one really important thing, and this is something that we often miss because we, you know, I mean, we're very accustomed to answering that question. It's probably, you know, it's, After sort of seven years of talking to that question with runners, we hear it a lot less. But it's important to understand, like I said, most people haven't tried Hocker on their feet yet. they don't know that there is that distinct difference between what they see and what they feel when they actually put the shoe on. But the important thing to note is, like I said, you know, we had one shoe, say, eight years ago, we had one model, and it conformed exactly to that really distinct, super chunky, oversized profile we're talking about. And as much as that oversized profile has actually influenced everything other shoe brands to bring product to market that actually looks, you know, if you go to a shoe store, our profile is not that outlandish now. We've definitely influenced the space for different reasons and in different ways. But the important thing is also we get that, you know, we've got a variety of profiles now. I personally like to use very different shoes for different purposes and different, you know, different runs. I've got shoes that are very low profile from hawker you know so we've got the the torrent is a new trail shoe that we've just brought in which is very light and low profile it's a 16 mil so you know about two-thirds of an inch just under two-thirds of an inch stack under the ball of the foot which is the main impact zone at the same time the shoe that i'm i'm going to be doing most of hard rock in is twice that thickness under the ball of the foot if i'm if i'm feeling really good i might want a shoe that gives me no protection or i might want to wear a shoe that gives me a lot of protection so I can feel that good for longer. I might start a day doing a run where I'm deliberate, you know, I'm very much bashed up from the day before as I've been. And, um, and I might deliberately choose a thinner shoe. So I bashed myself up even harder because that's all about driving the body to respond in a certain way. That'll benefit me when I do actually get to Colorado and I'm running ridiculous mountains in about four weeks time. So, you know, you can go from the, hey, I want one shoe that I can go for a walk and run and mow the lawn and do volleyball in, to, all right, I've got a shoe for wet trail runs, dry trail runs, steep trail runs. I've got a shoe for short, fast runs. I've got a shoe for long, fast runs. I've got a shoe for when I feel completely bashed. I've got a shoe for when I'm trying to pump out a quicker 20K on road. I've got something that I actually want to suffer in for 60K, and I've got something where I just want to feel good when I kick it over for 10Ks when I get home and just need to run the day off. it's it's there are nuances and i'm sure that your listeners and your runners are very familiar with having uh different moods different needs different things that they want from their shoes and you see that in the there is that one person who does have the same pair of shoes they've been wearing for every single thing they've ever done for the last three years and there is that person who probably has 13 different shoes which regularly get turned over and, you know, might never die because they're using other things all the time. So, yeah, it's beyond just... Hockers are this, we're a lot of things for a lot of different people now.

00:27:44Scott Trickett: So when Hocker came onto the market, they were based out of France, they were a trail running shoe, but as you've just alluded to, you've got a wide range now and I see a lot of Hockers at parkrun on the recreational runner. So how has the evolution of your marketing gone over the last few years where I'm sure you came to market targeting the hardcore trail runners who did those stupid distances and but now you're in a space with the recreational runners looking at your shoes. How's that worked for you guys?

00:28:15Roger Hanney: Well, uh, Jean-Luc, so Jean-Luc Diard is, um, you have Jean-Luc Diard and Nico were the two co-founders and Jean-Luc is this fantastic sort of Einstein, crazy genius type guy who, you know, as soon as his eyes light up and he says, Oh, this is interesting. And you really pay attention. And, um, One of Jean-Luc's favorite phrases is just proof of concept. So once we had both the female and male winner at Ultra Trail de Mont Blanc, which is really the pinnacle event in extreme distance trail running, that was clear proof of concept. And the really cool thing in that year for my thinking was We not only had shoes on the very first female and the very first male out of a field of two and a half thousand runners who've all had to complete major races just to qualify to be on that start line. We were also the shoe on the guy who ran across the line dead last about 25 hours after they'd finished. And that for me, that idea of extreme performance but also really helping people who just need as much help as they can possibly get. I love that. I think that that's a great affirmation of what we are because at the end of the day, you've got maybe 1% of the top 1% of athletes who are really, really focused on world records and victories and all these sorts of things. Most of us just want to get out there, enjoy the run, beat our mates, maybe do something better than we've done before, run ourselves back into fitness, whatever it is. And as far as the communication going from an extreme distance message on trail and in crazy places all over the planet to, hey, if you're running road, if you're doing parkrun, if you're just training, if you just need to get off the couch, we've got stuff for you, has shifted from being a focus on trail and ultra marathon to understanding that as much as most people might be puzzled that there are people running on trail. They're also generally, I would almost say, turned off by the kind of distances we talk about. A really clear experience that I had of this was just recently because there's a retailer in Geelong Belinda, I think her name is, at Athlete's Foot in Geelong. And she's built up this fantastic walking market. You know, her store has a really particular character and there's a lot of people who go there for walking shoes. So I forgot that I'd even gone to see Belinda maybe four years ago and I just got back from a race in Japan at the time and it was a road race but it was a 250k road race so I'd gone into her store and I talked to her about the shoes and she just said I don't need to hear about anybody running 250ks across Japan that's just ridiculous I'm here for walkers so obviously I was out of the store after that now the shoes as much as they you know all the things that benefit you being on your feet running from one side of japan to the other for 35 hours they're also really good for people who just need to get off the couch and go for a walk but that message really gets lost the second you say so i just ran for 35 hours across japan um i don't even mention that sort of stuff to most people now you know like i'll go into store and i'm not talking about doing uh you know 100 miler in the pyrenees i'm talking about getting off the couch, running around the bay, just getting back into training, loving running and wanting it to suck a bit less. You know, that is really what we're talking about. We're talking to, do you need to get out of the gym and do some running and you don't necessarily want to because cardio sucks, right? Or do you need to just chase down that PB at your next 10K or at your marathon or at your 5K? Like, do you want to beat your mates at parkrun this weekend? So... That is really the way that we've changed. And obviously we love our heritage. And there's no doubt that at the end of the day, if I had to choose between 5K and 100 miles, I'm doing 100 miles. But we are much more tuned in to the pleasure that we're seeing from people who are running much more bite-sized manageable distances and just enjoying it more in something different than they thought they'd ever feel on their feet.

00:32:42Melissa Erbacher: Normal people aside, I think if I could ever run 35 hours across Japan, I would want to drop that at every possible occasion as well. Roger, you mentioned that you are heading to Colorado to do the Hard Rock in a few weeks, the endurance run. Can you tell us a little bit about that? I'm curious. I am familiar with it, but for those of our listeners who haven't heard of it before and they don't know that the first rule is no whining, can you give them a bit more of a rundown?

00:33:21Roger Hanney: Oh, I love that the first rule is no whining. So Hard Rock 100 miler endurance run. Uh, which is basically the, the, the mascot is a giant mountain goats head with wild and tough painted on a rock. Um, and you don't actually finish the race until you kiss the rock. So it runs out of a small, uh, X mining town in the San Juan mountains called Silverton. And essentially there's a group of runners. Uh, Dale Garland is the race director who. these runners wanted to put together a hundred miler. So they looked at a way of basically setting out a course that goes through these incredible mountains. And we're talking, you know, 160 kilometers running 160 kilometers in any conditions is a challenge and an achievement, but, This is called a postgraduate ultra marathon because you're running 160 kilometres with an average elevation above sea level of 3,200 metres. So you're missing about 25% of the oxygen that's available to you at sea level. You climb as high as... about 4,200 metres. This year it's an even year, so we're going, I might get this wrong, but I think we're going clockwise essentially. So each year the direction's reversed, whether it's clockwise or anti-clockwise. The direction that we're running means that we're going to 4,200 metres, which is, you definitely notice the reduced oxygen at that point, at about the 90k mark, close to the 100k mark. and there's 10,000 metres of ascent. So essentially you're running four marathons in thin air while climbing and descending a 3,300-storey building with basically loose rocks all over the stairs is one way to start understanding it.

00:35:33Scott Trickett: That's pretty full on. My obvious question is why would anybody want to do that?

00:35:39Roger Hanney: Yeah. Yeah, I know. That's probably a sensible question, Scott. I've been really lucky with running. And if you don't mind, I'd like to just mention one thing that I'm tying this run to is a family type one diabetes center in West Australia called the Telethon Type One Family Center. So I've got an everyday hero page going for that. And we've raised close to 2,000 so far. And I'll send you the link if you don't mind including that on the podcast page. But I'm a type 1 diabetic. And I got diagnosed when I was 33. So that was just 10 years ago. And I had the same reaction as everyone does when they don't know what diabetes or type 1 diabetes actually is. And my thoughts were, But I don't eat cake and eat burgers. What the hell? Because I didn't understand that type one diabetes is a it's basically it's a genetic lotto ticket. So there are people out there who have the right set of all the chromosomes or genetics set in the right way to potentially one day become type one. But without a particular trigger or some unknown factor, they may never become type one. So all of a sudden um my eyesight went i was incredibly thirsty i was drinking four liters of water an hour and it was just going straight through me so i went from and you'll love this i went from on the saturday night just before easter doing my longest run ever which was 15 kilometers um to essentially not being able to read street signs from 15 feet away within a matter of about four or five days. And I initially thought, wow, I ran so far, I ran 15 kilometres, no wonder I'm really thirsty, to realising I actually had a serious problem and needed to get some help. So at that time, in 2008, I was training for my first half marathon. My sister-in-law, she'd been doing marathons with the goal of beating her dad's PB. So I thought, well, you know, and this comes from a background of, you know, it freaks me out to think about this a bit now, but I'd actually been up until six months beforehand. I'd been a smoker for years, which I just find weird to say now because it just isn't me at all. But as soon as I stopped smoking, I thought I'll go back to what I know, which is running I'd run a lot in school. I'd done cross-country and track in school. And running helped me make sense of things. So that had been my journey up to that point. That's how I got back into running and what I was really aspiring to do. So when I go into the hospital and I've got a blood sugar that is essentially six times what it should be, and I'm getting told that I've got type 1 diabetes, which, as I point out, I was completely confused by because I was really a big donut muncher. I was baffled, but still asked the doctor, because it was just out from the Sydney half marathon. I said, well, can I still do the half marathon? And he said, well, maybe come back next year and do the whole thing. And I thought, screw you, buddy, I'm getting this done. So that was for me the kernel of wanting to do bigger things. 2008, I did my first half marathon. 2009, I did my first marathon. Uh, 2010, I did my first hundred K at the North face, which is now ultra trail Australia. And I loved that distance so much that in the next 12 months, I did another 500 Ks, including a 12 hour race. Um, and from there, uh, my next goal was to do a hundred mile. So I did a hundred mile in 2011. I was increasing the distances each year. and once you've actually done 160k race what else do you do but a 240k race which in Australia is Coast to Kosciuszko, that goes from Eden to the top of Australia in the first or second weekend of december but along the way i got picked up by born to run and the born to run foundation was a another diabetes charity and it was started by a father who wanted to address this condition type 1 diabetes affected his son in his mid-teen years, and he wanted to do something about it. So that's how I ended up running around the world, which was incredible. And that was when my idea of running changed. So, you know, to get to your question, why would you want to do this ridiculously hard run in the mountains of Colorado, where you may well have to hide in a mine shaft from lightning for three or four hours at altitude. Um, and it's because in 2012, when we did the four deserts grand slam, which is essentially multi-day fast packing more or less self-supported in deserts doing four marathons, then an 85 K day, uh, and doing all of these in one year around the world, I changed my position from wanting to do intervals and train intervals and just do every race faster than the last. to understanding that running immerses us in the natural world in a uniquely privileged and special way. And that there are all these moments out there we can chase and seize, but only if we essentially put ourselves in some kind of harm's way. because we live this life that's very safe and very comfortable and essentially protected and it's a bit nine to five and doesn't have too many big variables. Or, you know, dealing with everything we deal with in life, we can also go chasing big challenges like, you know, like the San Juan Mountains or like desert races or like running in Antarctica or whatever it is, you know, whatever your extreme is. For me, extreme can just be running 10 hours through the night on my own in back country in the Blue Mountains. But you definitely know you're alive when you're doing this stuff.

00:42:08Melissa Erbacher: Alive, I'm sure, or possibly nearly dead. Maybe how you feel. Yeah, I can't wrap my head around 160 kilometres at this stage. I mean, when you started back on running, it escalated very quickly over that progression of years you've got there in terms of distance. Did you start – oh, I have so many questions – how has diabetes impacted? Like do you have to do things differently? Do you have to factor in things? What's the management plan with that and running or does running actually help you manage your diabetes?

00:42:48Roger Hanney: Yeah, last question first, absolutely. Like type 1 diabetes means that your pancreas is, your pancreas for instance like when you know assuming you don't have diabetes when you let's say if you drink a coke or juice or eat an apple whatever it is as soon as your body detects that it's having those carbohydrates it'll fire up and produce insulin which helps convert the energy from those carbohydrates into something that you can store in your body cells for use as you need it with type 1 my pancreas no longer has that function because for whatever reason my autoimmune system has targeted the cells that do that. And it means that instead of that being a really simple unconscious process that I'm never aware of and that just takes care of itself, I have to actively check my blood sugars, see how they're traveling, where they are, what I'm doing. I have to give myself an appropriate amount of insulin, which is actually a really potent hormone for the amount of carbohydrate that I'm taking in. And that has to be in the context of how insulin sensitive am I at the moment? Funny things are, right after a marathon, your insulin sensitivity can actually go right down because there's so much inflammation in your body, which blocks the action of insulin. Or if you do just a mild 10K run or even half an hour of sort of CrossFit type strength training, you can be incredibly sensitive to insulin. Again, if a 42K run is your standard training run, you won't actually have that much inflammation after it. And there's all these variables that you are always learning no matter how much you know but the very simple basis of it is i need to make sure that i've got sufficient insulin in my system that my blood sugars aren't high enough for long enough to cause a problem through sort of fatigue and dehydration and i need to make sure that my sugars aren't going so low or that i've got so much insulin in my system that my body can't actually work with the amount of blood sugar that's available and ends up in a state of collapse. What I have found is that by essentially being consistent in my run training, training both regularly and with variations of intensity, my insulin dependence, the amount of insulin that I need to take in comparison to, let's just say, you know, an everyday diabetic who's not doing anything particularly extreme and probably isn't doing much personal training of their own. My levels that I take are about a quarter of what most non-athletic, non-active type ones are taking. And the other good thing that I've noticed is that I can function at blood sugar levels low enough to put other diabetics on the floor in a seizure because I think my body is so used to the processes of energy conversion and energy storage being very dynamic that my body essentially works as its own first aid kit.

00:46:07Melissa Erbacher: So doctors are going to start prescribing ultramarathons to diabetics to help them manage it in the future? Are you some kind of a science project for someone? Acro.

00:46:17Roger Hanney: They just need parkrun. If you're a type one out there, just go and do your parkruns on Saturday, train for your parkruns, do some strength alternate days, do some running alternate days. As long as you don't have any 24-hour period where you're completely inactive, then you should be in a lot better condition than you might be otherwise. But, yeah, I mean, you know, if you want to step up to Ultramarathon, go for it. It's extremely rewarding.

00:46:43Scott Trickett: I want to go back to Hard Rock before we wrap up there, Roger. There's not many spots open. Did you have to qualify or did you get lucky in the lottery? How did you come about getting entry into this crazy event?

00:46:56Roger Hanney: Yeah, I got very lucky. So you need a qualifier. So you need to have done an approved and – uh similarly or i mean the interesting thing is there's really nothing that's similar to hard rock but you need to have done a tough mountain race to get a qualifier so my 2016 Ultra-Trail du Mont-Blanc 100 mile finish counted as my qualifier which meant that i could go into the lottery but as someone who had never applied for the lottery for hard rock i i a friend messaged me to say i had about a point two two percent chance of getting picked and they do literally pick names out of, out of a barrel and then post them, you know, five at a time on Twitter, which is, you know, old school meets new school in an interesting way. But yeah, I, I got completely lucky. Um, you know, so I, I, uh, I, I was actually in the last five people drawn out of, out of, I think 145 or 150 runners. So lucky or unlucky either way, depending how you look at it. I feel like I'm lucky, but I'm sure you don't necessarily agree.

00:48:08Scott Trickett: I think you're incredibly lucky. I don't think I could ever be able to do that. The training alone would put me off, but it's something that I definitely aspire to. I think most people do. So yeah, I definitely count you in the lucky bucket this time around.

00:48:24Roger Hanney: I think, I mean, the funny thing is that if you look at it, okay, let's say if you've never spoken English, you know, if you come from a different language background, then people talking fluently in English is going to be intimidating and you're probably not going to feel like, hmm, that sounds like something I want to do. But, you know, you gradually... Uh, you get your building blocks of language, you start to learn structure, then you pick up some vocabulary, uh, then you start to have some casual back and forth conversations and, and what, you know, soon in five or six years, you're writing essays and feeling quite good about things. And I think that that is what ultra marathon is very much like, you know, if you look at the training, uh, sort of volumes and terrain and sort of things that we do, um, then it's, you know, I know how I thought I asked all the same questions when somebody first said that they'd done a 100K race. I was like, what? What do you eat? Do you sleep? Like, is it all in one go? And all those sort of things that everybody asks, they're pretty standard questions. But then once you're doing it, as you start to assimilate it, for me, it's, you know, it's similar to the type 1 diabetes management. When you've got to do type 1 diabetes where you're thinking in terms of, How much insulin do I take with this amount of carbohydrate? How long will that be active for? What happens if I have to do anything in between? What if I get a sudden phone call and have to run across town? What are my activity levels going to do? do I have an emergency sugar on me in case I need it so that I can basically sort myself out and stay conscious? Like that can be, that's quite intimidating. But then as you go out and you practice and you train and you make mistakes and you learn from those and you assimilate that learning into what you do and then you go and make different mistakes and you learn from those too, it becomes something you really look forward to because it is, It is so rewarding. So once you, you know, I think it's just like basic running. You know, any runner has been injured. There's no doubt about it. Any runner has had an injury that's put them on the couch for two or three weeks and they felt really sorry for themselves. And when they get back to running, they're not running at the level that they perceive they should be. And that feels punishing in a way. i think that you just need to let go of your preconceptions so you need to let go of any expectation that i'm going to run this far this fast or i'm going to feel good for this long or i'm probably not going to throw up or this isn't going to hurt like if you let go of all your expectations and you let go of your preconceived idea of well i've got you know this is my 5k time so i should be doing a marathon in this time if you let go of all of those things and just literally take it a step at a time because that at the end of the day is the only thing that you can really do anything about then it becomes rewarding enough to want to keep doing more of it uh a good friend uh paul every who you know i love paul i mean paul is the guy who first opened my eyes to the fact that people were doing 100 mile runs and 150 mile runs This is a guy who ran from Perth to Sydney in the Trans Australia Marathon. You know, like he ran literally across the whole country, does multiple Ironmans. And the way that he puts it, I love, and I think it applies to all of us, whatever we're doing at whatever level we're doing it. And that is that, and, you know, it's particularly true of Ultramarathon, but I think it's true of anything, which is that you cannot focus on the goal. you have to focus on the process because the beauty of that, everything flows from that. You focus on the process, you focus on what's in front of you and the goal will be delivered as long as you're focusing on the process in the right way. But once you focus on the goal and you feel like you're owed a result or you have to get there because it's the only way this is going to turn out, you forget to pay attention to the steps you literally got to take to get there.

00:52:33Melissa Erbacher: This is all excellent advice for life. I do love your analogies, Roger. Next time I need an analogy, I'm going to come to you. You know, Hokas are the kayak of shoes. Training for an ultra is like learning a language. This is all wonderful ways of explaining how people can start from one place and go to another. Love it. I love it. I do have one, one final question. I mean, obviously hard rock is, is a massive undertaking. It's going to be a brilliant achievement. I can't wait to hear how you go there, but what do you do to top that? Like, where do you go after hard rock? What's the next big thing?

00:53:11Roger Hanney: Oh, there are so many crazy races out there, Mel, seriously. You know, there's, you can top you can top anything i mean you have people who for instance i'm sure you've got people who've done just about every parkrun um are they coming to parkrun to meet more people each week to meet different people to beat people who beat them the week before you know it's like you can do the same thing and color it differently or in a fresh way each time um i i have a few races that i keep Going back to I know that hard rock for a lot of people is a race They keep going back to because it is such a unique tough community Building sort of event, you know, there's a real lot of love around that space in the San Juan's But for me, I've I have not had a problem You know after that initial thought of honor, you know, like now that I've done a 250k run. I've got to do something further and I haven't had a problem with finding additional challenges, you know, so, uh, you do a hundred, you know, you do 160 Ks in really hard mountains in San Juan, you can go and do 160 Ks in snow out, like snow conditions. Uh, I've got a friend who does a race regularly called the Iditarod Trail Invitational. Now the beginner's element of that race is 350 miles across Alaska. Um, dragging a sled, the adult version of it is 1,000 miles, so 1,600 kilometers across Alaska, dragging a sled. And it's in winter, so snowed in. So there's a 200-mile race, which is 330 kilometers with 24,000 meters of gain in northern Italy called Tor des Géants. It's the world's first, really, it's the world's first 200-miler. 200 miles are actually becoming a thing crazily enough amongst the ultra community globally um and i've got i've got an official finish at the 205k mark of that race from when it got closed down by weather a few years ago and i've got an official did not finish from the 309k mark of that race um last year when i was just completely busted and pulled um Because there was just, you know, I just felt like the damage that I was accumulating was going to become permanent at that point. So, you know, there are so many challenges out there when you start immersing yourself in this stuff. There's a great website called ironfar.com. So iRunFar.com is the world's biggest ultramarathon website and really a great place to go and find out about this stuff. There's the Barclay, for God's sake. There's a race called the Barkley, which I think any ultra runner who thinks that they've done everything they can possibly do, it's as nasty as it can possibly be, that's the race. They just have to go and not finish. So this race has had, the Barkley Marathons is five laps of supposedly 25 miles, but it's more, correction, 20 miles, but it's more like 25, 28 miles. So it's essentially a marathon, a loop. There's five loops. Three loops is called a fun run. If you complete the whole course, you do more vert in 60 hours than two climbs up Everest. It's got, you know, briars and thorns that tear you apart. It's something you've got to navigate. There's been 15 finishes out of a thousand starters. There's a beautiful documentary by the Ginger Runner. And Ginger Runner is a great guy to look at too. But there's a doco called Where Dreams Go to Die. Um, which is just phenomenally good. And anyone who runs at all, or anyone who's ever just wanted to do something tough can watch that. There are, there are self challenges. There are fastest known times. There are, you know, things where people are just trying to, even if you're not going for fastest known time, just setting out on a journey of your own, whether it's the foot, you know, the thousand kilometer Bibbulmun in West Australia or the 250 kilometer great North walk between Newcastle and Sydney. There's an incredible challenge in the mountains called Nolan's 14 in Colorado. And Anna Frost, who's this phenomenal ultra runner out of New Zealand, she's got the women's record, if not the outright record on that. And that is essentially doing 14,000 foot peaks within a set time in any order that you want. So some people who do that challenge, they'll do 90 miles, but with more vert than someone who does the same peaks with less vert over 105 miles. So as you get into this world of crazy distances, you find that everything that you thought was the hardest thing you could ever do, there's always something harder and there's always someone doing it tougher. You know, I would recommend if you're in Australia, Ultra Trail Australia in the Blue Mountains in May is the gateway ultra. They've got, you know, the 22 kilometer option. They've got the 50 kilometer option. They've got the 100K option. They've got the stair climbing challenge. You know, there are all these things that you can do and you'll meet some of the most motivated, happy, sore people. that you've ever run a few Ks with. And for me, that race was my first 100K. I've had the good luck to continue to be part of that race, both as a runner and as part of the social media team, working with a really, really amazing crew. uh directed by Tom Landon-Smith and Alina McMaster and you know that whole thing you know that that's just being bought by the guys who put on iron man and people have this idea of iron man as oh it's expensive triathlons but what iron man is globally is you know they're doing mountain bike races they're doing marathons they're doing trail races they're the world's biggest event company you know so those guys are now taking this kind of stuff seriously and they want to contribute to growing. You know, I think that all of us, whether we're running 5k or 22k or 100k or whatever it is we're doing, we're pretty much at the front edge of the most fun growth in sport globally. And I think, you know, looking for opportunities to further explore that, whether that's overseas or locally or on a different terrain or over a different distance, I think that if you're not embracing that, then you may be missing out and it's worth looking outside your own comfort zone all the time.

01:00:10Scott Trickett: Hey, Roger. I thought we were just getting you on to talk about shoes, but I've really loved having you as a guest on the pod this week. Your enthusiasm for all things running related is infectious. So thanks for sharing some of that with us on the parkrun Adventures this week.

01:00:28Roger Hanney: That's all right. I've also got to say this will all be a lot easier if you have a fantastic like-minded partner. Um, and I definitely do because, uh, Haley, who's coming to move and coming to Colorado with me, she's, she's just, you know, I hope everyone's is lucky, but when you have someone who you can run with and who, who crews you, who you can crew and look after and, you sort of share each other's dreams. You know, I was just thinking about this this morning, because even, even when you're running alone, I mean, I did, I did two nine hour training runs on the weekend. And even when you're training alone, you're really training together because having, having a partner who's generous enough to give you, you know, give you absolutely selflessly that time without expectation to go and get your stuff done because they share your dreams that, that means so much and you know i see i know runners i'm sure you guys do too like you know those runners whose partners don't necessarily get running or dig running or share running and i i just um i i find that i find that challenging to understand and not not in the sort of challenging way that i like to find challenges i just think that we all all of us runners um we need to We need to reflect on the people in our lives, whether it's our work or our family. We just need to appreciate how much our dreams are possible because of them, even though they really are the silent part of what we get done.

01:02:08Melissa Erbacher: That's very sweet. Shout out to Hayley. Good job on being a good supportive partner. I know when my hubby was training for a marathon, it was very difficult. And I am a runner to, you know, let him go for those long runs. And it's not just the running when they're out of the house. It's the destroyed need to lie down on the couch and just be a vegetable for the rest of the day that sort of ruins the whole weekend that you have to put up with. So, you know, yes, the partners are the unsung heroes of these training goals, definitely.

01:02:41Roger Hanney: Singing to the choir, Mel, that's awesome.

01:02:44Melissa Erbacher: But, Scotty, definitely hit the nail on the head. You're very motivational, and I'm sitting here with a heat pack and a little granny rug that my Nana literally knitted for me 35 years ago on my lap, but I think I might go out for a run after we've had this chat. So thank you very much, Roger. I hope you have a wonderful time at Hard Rock, and it's been great having you.

01:03:07Roger Hanney: Yeah, thanks. It's been a pleasure to be on. and have it in talk your ears off and go and buy some Hoka or at least try some on.

01:03:10[music]

Channel 5 News Crew

01:03:24Tony O'Connell: Howdy parkrunners, it's TOC reporting in for the Channel 5 News Crew. I'm down at Mernda parkrun's first anniversary. It's been a sensational day. The forecast was for pretty ordinary conditions. I'm looking out and I can't see a cloud in the sky. It's blue. It is chilly. It is crisp and refreshing, but the course is sensational. I've got Amanda here. Amanda's the ED at Mernda. Amanda, tell us a bit about your course and how you came into parkrun.

01:03:52Amanda: Okay, well I started off at Laylaw parkrun, which we loved. It was a really community based, really friendly parkrun. And I kind of wanted, I became an RD there actually and kind of wanted to bring the same feeling parkrun to Mernda as what Melissa had created over at Laylaw. And I think we actually have done that.

01:04:11Scott Trickett: Excuse my funny voice, by the way. I'm getting over the dreaded lurgy.

01:04:15Amanda: So, yeah, we came by the course. I'd originally set up, found a course that was workable in Doreen. And one of the EAs, the event ambassadors, Mark Porritt, said that this area here in Mernda, we could probably squeeze 5K out of it. So we spent, you know, many times walking it, testing it, doing the Garmin measuring and whatnot, and we came up with the course that we've got today. Yeah, that's how it came into fruition. We did have to get council to work a few of the hills, so a big thank you to Whittlesea Council for making the course workable. We had a hill that we couldn't have used prior to that, and they do all the maintenance on the boardwalks and everything, so that's how Mernda started.

01:04:55Tony O'Connell: No worries. You had the incredible Mr. Murphy along today as your run director, as a guest run director. Gary spoke about community and I've got to say, look, we're 40 minutes after parkrun's really finished and there are still so many people sitting around talking and just chatting. That's an amazing community you've built out here. It's really incredible.

01:05:13Amanda: I know the community is great, we've got a real mix of families and runners and walkers and they do, they stick around afterwards, every parkrun, not just today because we've got cake, but they do, they stick around and we often go across to the local bakery and have coffees and whatnot, but yeah, they do, we stick around, we all cheer each other on.

01:05:30Tony O'Connell: So there's cake here today, is there?

01:05:32Amanda: There's certainly plenty of cake here, plenty of cake.

01:05:36Tony O'Connell: And tell us a little bit about your course for those that haven't been out and done Mernda before.

01:05:40Amanda: It's a really mixed terrain course. We've got, we run around some wetlands, so we've got some, it's like a lake, I guess, in the middle of it, and that's paved. We head out along a Plenty Road leg, so even though we're alongside the road on one side, the other side has got horses and paddocks, so it's a really rural outlook. Then we head out into the nature reserve which then you're heading into some gravel and we've got a couple of little hills out there as well too. And then we do that twice so it's a double lap course and you've got beautiful views out over Mernda and over the wetlands from the nature reserve and it's just a real mixture.

01:06:15Tony O'Connell: It's a lovely course and a really friendly bunch of runners. I got probably more high fives today than I've had in a hell of a long time at parkrun. Love the high fives. Just a really great place out here. Great vibe, great community.

01:06:26Amanda: Yeah, thank you.

01:06:28Tony O'Connell: Well done and congratulations on the first year and many more to come.

01:06:31Amanda: Thank you. Cheers. See you, Toc.

01:06:34Scott Trickett: Thanks, Toc. Always bringing back the word howdy into common vernacular. Should be more of it. And Fun Times was had at Mernda. Amanda looks like she's running a great event there. I've been there once, and I could probably back that claim up. It is a beauty. We must have more events ready to launch that have the potential to also be beauties, Mel.

Launches and anniversaries ("Where is the cake?")

01:06:58Melissa Erbacher: We do. We don't have any more launching in Victoria this weekend, but we've got a couple in a couple of the Australias. We've got one in Western Australia and one in South Australia.

01:07:11Scott Trickett: One of those would be Mount Buster.

01:07:14Melissa Erbacher: Mount Buster, named after your furry little critter who likes to keep you company when you record the podcast. More commonly referred to as Mount Helena if you're in Western Australia.

01:07:26Scott Trickett: We'd get there eventually. And also Port Augusta in South Australia. So there's two launches in two towns that you and I know nothing about, so we'll be keen to hear more as those events grow.

01:07:40Melissa Erbacher: Yeah, hey, hopefully we've got some roving reports from those places next week. Hint, hint, nudge, nudge anyone in those states or going to those launches. We would love to hear about them, please.

01:07:52Scott Trickett: We've got some anniversaries as well. Burley Griffin in the ACT. I finally got that name right.

01:07:59Melissa Erbacher: Good job, says Buster. And in Queensland, Gladstone is celebrating their anniversary.

01:08:06Scott Trickett: And two more in Victoria to round it out. Hastings Foreshore and Jells. Very popular amongst the adventurers, Mel, because they love getting a J.

01:08:15Melissa Erbacher: And they are few and far between, aren't they?

01:08:17Scott Trickett: Yeah, because I've never thought about it because Jells is relatively local. I've had a bit to do with it, so I've always done it. So I've never thought about it, getting my J. But every time I see a tourist or an adventurer post, it's... I went to Jells for my J. Not for the beautiful park and the friendly community.

01:08:35Melissa Erbacher: It's for the J. Yes, but the beautiful park and friendly community are certainly like the winning things once they get there, I'm sure. Meanwhile, I don't know about you, Scotty, but I have been freezing my proverbials off in the last week since we spoke. And I am a little bit lamenting the fact that we no longer have what I call a hot water blanket on my bed. It's not, there's no water in it, but for some reason it's like a hot water bottle, but it's not. And we used to have an electric blanket and we haven't used one the last couple of years. And I'm thinking about bringing it back because I just, I'm not sure I can cope with the rest of winter. if it's going to be this cold or worse. Do you guys have an electric blanket? You are in freezing capital of freezingdom. How do you get through the winter?

01:09:28Scott Trickett: Yeah, absolutely. It's an essential item down here. And I think it's one of those other things that I look forward to going to bed. And it's nice and warm. So Yvonne and I have this sort of battle that who's going to go to bed first to turn on the electric blanket? Because it's always nicer to walk and slide into the bed when it's already warm.

01:09:48Melissa Erbacher: Why don't you just turn it on half an hour before you go to bed?

01:09:51Scott Trickett: That would require a bit of pre-planning and pre-thought on both of our behalves. So that's not going to happen. But I've got an alternative to this, Mel. Okay. And also a discussion picked up from our previous episode. Now, remember in the early days, we may have joked about the parkrun Adventurers merchandise range. I'm ready to pick up that battle again. And our first item was we were going to launch our own range of leg warmers. Now for a long time I've been fighting with the leg warmer cartel and it's a fight that I've been losing but I think I'm ready to assault it again. Your favorite word.

01:10:33Melissa Erbacher: My favorite word. This is a very aggressive episode. Yeah, so if we – Stupid fighting words, Scotty.

01:10:40Scott Trickett: Well, the leg warmer cartel is more strong and powerful than you would imagine. But I think we can take them on now. We've got more listeners than we had in the early days.

01:10:51Melissa Erbacher: We've got some powerful – Listeners who I'm sure want leg warmers.

01:10:54Scott Trickett: Yeah, yeah. And if we can't fight them, we'll go alone. We'll create our own leg warmers.

01:11:02Melissa Erbacher: Hey, look, I know how to knit.

01:11:03Scott Trickett: Yep.

01:11:04Melissa Erbacher: I'm pretty sure YouTube could teach me to crochet if that's necessary.

01:11:07Scott Trickett: I'm happy to help you find those videos on YouTube.

01:11:15Melissa Erbacher: That would be your contribution. Thank you. That would be very helpful.

01:11:20Scott Trickett: Okay. So we're making plans. So when can we expect our first line of leg warmer merchandise? How long does it take you to knit? Because I can find the videos today.

01:11:32Melissa Erbacher: You can find the videos today. Look, let me get back to you on that. I reckon I could probably – look, geez, and this is poor timing because I just visited my nana in the nursing home today. I could probably get a whole swag of ladies in the nursing home knitting away on merchandise. That's not like the same as a sweatshop, is it?

01:11:54Scott Trickett: No, it's not. They're happy to do it. If you're happy to do it, it's fine.

01:11:58Unidentified speaker: It's a hobby. Okay.

01:12:01Melissa Erbacher: Well, maybe I'll do some recruiting when I go back up to visit her next. But in the meantime, I will dust off my knitting needles and I will start working on the prototype leg warmers. Should we get people to vote on the colour or something like that?

01:12:18Scott Trickett: I think we're already asking our listeners too much. I think we should take on that burden of designing the colours and the style of… The scheme.

01:12:28Melissa Erbacher: Okay. All right. Well, I can't wait to see what kinds of patterns you discover on YouTube. All right. Well, we'll take that on board in-house then because I guess you're right. We are asking our listeners a lot lately. We need more contributions to the poem zone, for example.

Poem Zone

01:12:47Scott Trickett: Exactly.

01:12:48Melissa Erbacher: We do have another pearler to bring out this week. We do. However, to keep the poem zone going, people need to contribute. And we would like to see your haikus, guys. So please send them in, parkrunadventures at gmail.com or drop us a Facebook message or at us at Instagram or on Twitter. We are very contactable people.

01:13:09Unidentified speaker: Yep.

01:13:10Scott Trickett: Twitter. Send me all your haikus on Twitter this week. I'll be all over that one.

01:13:14Melissa Erbacher: Tweet them to Scotty. Yep. He loves Twitter.

01:13:17Scott Trickett: And I'm not accepting entries to a Facebook post from three years ago as a submission into the Poem Zone. It needs to be fresh. It needs to be good content.

01:13:27Melissa Erbacher: Brand new, on point, for this purpose only.

01:13:31Scott Trickett: Like one of our favourite listeners, Caroline Southwell, submitted. She submitted a couple, Mel. Have you got them in front of you?

01:13:37Melissa Erbacher: No, I do not.

01:13:38Unidentified speaker: Okay.

01:13:39Scott Trickett: I do. Should I go first? Because not one, she's given us three.

01:13:43Melissa Erbacher: Okay. Well, you did give us an excellent rendition of how haiku should be read last week. So I am confident that you can carry this off.

01:13:50Scott Trickett: Okay. Just in case we don't get any more, Caroline, we're going to drag yours out for the next three weeks. So I'm going to pick my favorite this week. And if we do get more, we'll do the rest next week.

01:14:02Melissa Erbacher: We're not dragging them out so much as we're highlighting them delicately over time.

01:14:07Scott Trickett: Yeah, just so we can continue to have the poem zone as a segment.

01:14:10Melissa Erbacher: Which we're still excited about and we think is a great idea.

01:14:14Scott Trickett: I'm going to lead with my favourite first. It goes a little something like this. Huge end to the week, I say. Two plus two plus three. We came, we saw and we ran.

01:14:27Melissa Erbacher: That's a great one.

01:14:29Scott Trickett: Yeah. So Caroline just did the longest run. Remember that, Mel? You used to do it.

01:14:35Melissa Erbacher: I did.

01:14:36Scott Trickett: So that was in reference to her seven parkruns. Freedom runs. Last weekend in Sydney. Awesome. Which looked like a ton of fun. So we'll save the other couple for next week and just confirm that they are definitely haikus.

01:14:50Melissa Erbacher: Thanks, Caroline. That's awesome. Love your work.

01:14:54Scott Trickett: Do they have to be haikus? Did we say that in the poem zone? Can they just be poems? I want to broaden the spectrum here. Haikus are great. We've done two now. I want poems.

01:15:07Melissa Erbacher: Ah, so we're opening it up to all sorts of rhyme and verse. Yes. People can use similes, metaphors, alliteration. Yes. Any other poetic license they feel necessary. Okay.

01:15:18Scott Trickett: Because I'm very naive in the poem world.

01:15:20Melissa Erbacher: You're going off book now.

01:15:21Scott Trickett: And I want to experience more examples of poetry.

01:15:25Melissa Erbacher: Okay.

01:15:26Scott Trickett: Not just haikus.

01:15:28Melissa Erbacher: Nothing against the Japanese, but... We could get submissions as long as The Man from Snow River, you realise that?

01:15:34Scott Trickett: I don't think too many people will spend that much time on this, Mel.

01:15:38Melissa Erbacher: I think there's quite a few now that are taking that as a challenge.

01:15:42Scott Trickett: Okay, good. Good, whatever it takes. And that wraps up Episode 117. Did we have anything else, Mel, that I was supposed to talk about?

01:15:52Melissa Erbacher: That I haven't very gently and unobtrusively led you to? No, Scotty, I think you covered it all. Good, good.

01:16:01Scott Trickett: So we'll have a bumper episode next week where you and I will be together. We might collect some material over the weekend.

01:16:06Melissa Erbacher: But probably we won't because we never do whenever we say that we might do that. We get together and we just have too much fun being parkrunners and experiencing things. So, yeah, we shouldn't make promises we can't keep, Scotty.

01:16:21Scott Trickett: Okay. Maybe I'll set recording over one of our conversations. Maybe that could be the podcast for next week.

01:16:29Melissa Erbacher: Okay. Well, we'll see if that works.

01:16:32Scott Trickett: But until then.

01:16:34Melissa Erbacher: Until then.